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 Two hits with one attack power

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Skar

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PostSubject: Two hits with one attack power   Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:46 pm

Question: Do you roll both attacks and then determine damages, or do you do one attack then damage then other attack then damage, or something else?

  1. Does twin strike potentially get two [1d6] bonus damages?
    Things to consider:
    Quote :
    You deal 1d6 extra damage when you hit enemies that are at maximum hit points with this weapon

  2. If your first hit kills, can your second blow be against an adjacent prone target?
    Things to consider:
    Quote :
    Whenever you reduce an enemy to 0 or fewer hit points with this weapon, all enemies adjacent to you are knocked prone.
    Quote :
    Whenever you hit a prone target with an axe or a heavy blade, the target takes 5 extra damage.
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Gardain
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PostSubject: Re: Two hits with one attack power   Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:56 pm

Question is are the two attacks simultaneous or sequential.

I am torn on this one, but favouring simultaneous attacks

Simultaneous
* Allows the two sets of d6 damage like the case presented here (assuming both weapons in the melee case have this power)
* Prevents the conditional attack with the off hand. (example: if my main hand kills target A, I am going to attack target B, else I am going to attack A again)

Sequential
* Allows conditional attack as above
* Allows case #2.

I am leaning towards simultaneous since there are other powers like the fighters "Hack and Hew" that clearly outline a secondary attack as an effect making them clearly sequential.

Also PHB2 Pg 218 Rules on Power Format says:
Quote :
Sequence: The order of information in a power description is a general guide to the sequence in which the power’s various effects occur. For example, an “Effect” entry might appear above attack information in a power description to indicate that something happens before you make the attack.
Since both attacks are identified on the same line I again would lead towards simultaneous.
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Skar

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PostSubject: Re: Two hits with one attack power   Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:15 pm

That makes sense. So if we are in concensus, then we need to make sure that we declare 1 or 2 targets with twin strike, etc. before we roll. Also I need to rethink my ranger build that knocks a guy prone with one hand and does headsman chop (+5 dmg to prone) with the other hand. It's hard to attack prone targets (at least by one's self) because they'd tend to stand up on their turn.
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mikebr99

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PostSubject: Re: Two hits with one attack power   Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:10 am

With the Ranger's Twin Strike... we've always played that if your 1st attack kills then you're able to direct the 2nd attack at another target. Andy's NPC from the AatB party had a similar power... but it could ONLY be used on one target for both attacks.

Are you saying that the number of targets should be decided before you roll the attacks and damage?

Mike
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Skar

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PostSubject: Re: Two hits with one attack power   Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:31 am

Based on Jim's interpretation, I'd say yes, for Twin Strike.
For Dual Strike, No. Dual strike allows you to attack, hit/miss, damage, kill, etc. and then do the secondary attack.

I agree that we've done Twin Strike differently before, and Andy's Twin Arrow was on one target (not sure why it was ruled that way.. maybe because Andy came from a monster build)

I bring this up for discussion because it's different than we've played, and it has impact on some powers, such as Challenge-Seeking weapons, or attacks that cause effects to targets or those adjacent to targets. I do think Jim interpreted it correctly because otherwise they wouldn't have written Dual Strike so differently than Twin Strike. They would have just written 'two creatures' instead of 'one creature'
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PostSubject: Re: Two hits with one attack power   Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:36 am

I see that... I agree that the target(s) need to be chosen before resolving the twin strike attacks and can't then be changed after the 1st attack.

Mike
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Skar

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PostSubject: Re: Two hits with one attack power   Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:06 am

Since we use OpenRpg the way we do, and we do the damage rolls and attack rolls at the same time, we have to declare everything before hand, but technically, you could roll the attack on one, and if you felt that that attack roll was sufficient to kill (without knowing damage, etc.) you could roll on the second target, as long as this all happens before the subsequent damage or effects happen. For instance, if you rolled a natural 20, and knew you were fighting minions, you could declare the second roll on another target. (Though with minions you probably attack two anyway)

But since we are doing things with OpenRpg the way we are, we can't do that so easily, so instead we haven't been stringent on the attack's order of operations.
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